Rules preview: building your company

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

I've heard it said that a frame with either no weapons and/or only h2h weapons gets a bonus 1Gd8 for movement. My question is, does an SSR count against this bonus?

my understanding is yes it counts. but you can just launch the thing and then get a nice little speed boost. one guy I'm going to be putting together has three SSRs and h2h. it'll start the match by weakening enemy defenses ance then after those suckers are gone, close in for the kill.

Nope, it doesn't count! You can tool around with your green d8 and a giant rocket! Hell, you can put all three on that guy! He's a high-speed murderin' machine! Don't forget, though, those rockets aren't hit points. If the guy goes down, they go down with him. And I'll tell you, if I see a guy with a green d8 and a rack of one-shots angling for something of mine, I can tell you who I'm gonna shoot.

It's that guy.

[MittenNinja]

Nope, it doesn't count! You can tool around with your green d8 and a giant rocket!

Well then, I know something I'm going to be using.

[Dukayn]

And I'll tell you, if I see a guy with a green d8 and a rack of one-shots angling for something of mine, I can tell you who I'm gonna shoot.

It's that guy.

This.

[MittenNinja]

So a frame's white dice can be used for anything, movement, spotting, defense, and what about attacking? Are white dice attacks limited to hth range when you have other weapons? what about when you dont?

[Malcolm_Craig]

So a frame's white dice can be used for anything, movement, spotting, defense, and what about attacking? Are white dice attacks limited to hth range when you have other weapons? what about when you dont?

You can use white dice for anything.

They can be used for weapons other than HtH provided you have a weapon capable of firing within that range band. So, if you have a direct fire assault rifle and your reds both show 1's, but you have a white showing a 6, you can use the white die. If your rifle gets blown away by enemy fire, then you can no longer use white dice for damage at direct fire range. But, you can always use white dice for HtH. After all, a frame can always punch or kick. Or just run into things at speed.

This is an assumption based on the Mechaton rules, but I assume this part of the game has not changed substantively.

Cheers,
Malcolm

[lumpley]

Correct!

-Vincent

[Forged]

I'm still fuzzy on how RED d8s show up, and how many red dice you get per system.
For blue yellow an green it's straightforward 1d6 per system. How does it work for weapons? I also here mention Of split range weapons. I remember seeing info on them for mechaton. How do they work, or do try exist in MFØ?

[Mantisking]

I'm still fuzzy on how RED d8s show up, and how many red dice you get per system.

If you have two weapons at the same range, instead of rolling 4d6 you roll 2d6+1d8 and take the highest number showing.

For blue yellow an green it's straightforward 1d6 per system. How does it work for weapons?

You roll 2d6 if it's weapon.

I also here mention Of split range weapons. I remember seeing info on them for mechaton. How do they work, or do try exist in MFØ?

J explains it here.

[Ramcat]

If you have two weapons at the same range, instead of rolling 4d6 you roll 2d6+1d8 and take the highest number showing.

From KickStarter page...

So this is a perfectly fair ljad - 2Rh+d8 + 1B + 1G + 2W + 1Gd8

Totally fair! That guy's a good solitary bruiser. You'll want a commander or scout in there somewhere to get a spot on his target first, though, to really optimize. That way he'll get to roll between 2 and 13 hit dice (yikes) rather than between 1 and 7. As HtH hits, they'll also do about twice as much damage as ranged hits, too.

This guy's weakness is that 1: he's got no yellow, so if he moves early in a round, he won't be able to support and there won't have been time to support him, and 2: he's an obvious threat and will get shot at a lot early on before he closes. You can avoid 2 by making a more obvious, longer range threat in your company.

"2 and 13" or "1 and 7"... Spotting takes it from "1 and 7" to "2 and 13"? I read that wrong, back on Mar 26th, I was thinking the 2Rh+d8 produced the results "2 to 14" (typoed at "2 to 13"). Because 1-6 + 1-8 has the range 2-14, but it seems you don't add the d8 to one of the chosen d6's, you select between the three dice, one of them. Ack, but that still doesn't account for the range (as typed by Joshua) starting at "2".

Now as I'm reading it, this seems to mean "damage" dice, and the "7" and the "13" are because the defenter is assumed to have at least a d6 showing a "1"?

Still don't get how the range starts at "2", unless the +d8 adds the d8 to the chosen d6.

[Mantisking]

So this is a perfectly fair ljad - 2Rh+d8 + 1B + 1G + 2W + 1Gd8

Totally fair! That guy's a good solitary bruiser. You'll want a commander or scout in there somewhere to get a spot on his target first, though, to really optimize. That way he'll get to roll between 2 and 13 hit dice (yikes) rather than between 1 and 7. As HtH hits, they'll also do about twice as much damage as ranged hits, too.

This guy's weakness is that 1: he's got no yellow, so if he moves early in a round, he won't be able to support and there won't have been time to support him, and 2: he's an obvious threat and will get shot at a lot early on before he closes. You can avoid 2 by making a more obvious, longer range threat in your company.

"2 and 13" or "1 and 7"... Spotting takes it from "1 and 7" to "2 and 13"? I read that wrong, back on Mar 26th, I was thinking the 2Rh+d8 produced the results "2 to 14" (typoed at "2 to 13"). Because 1-6 + 1-8 has the range 2-14, but it seems you don't add the d8 to one of the chosen d6's, you select between the three dice, one of them. Ack, but that still doesn't account for the range (as typed by Joshua) starting at "2".

Now as I'm reading it, this seems to mean "damage" dice, and the "7" and the "13" are because the defenter is assumed to have at least a d6 showing a "1"?

Still don't get how the range starts at "2", unless the +d8 adds the d8 to the chosen d6.

Okay, let's break it down.

Known items:
1.) The Attacker is rolling 2d6 + 1d8 for his attack at HtH range and is taking the highest number showing. Variable = X
2.) The Defender has rolled 1d6 and taken the highest number showing. Variable = Y
3.) A Third Party has placed a Spot on the Defender of 1d6. Variable = Z.

{* Rolls Dice*}
X =6, Y= 1, Z = 2.
The Attack is greater than or equal to the Defense, it hits. Attack - Defense + Spotting equals the number of Damage dice rolled (6 - 1 + 2) = 7.

{* Rolls Dice*}
X =3, Y= 4, Z = 1.
The Attack is lesser than the Defense, no hit. The Spot stays until used or the end of the turn.

{* Rolls Dice*}
X =5, Y= 2, Z = 3.
The Attack is greater than or equal to the Defense, it hits. Attack - Defense + Spotting equals the number of Damage dice rolled (5 - 2 + 3) = 6.

Does that explain adequately?

God, I hate nested quotes!

[Axhead]

Damage is equal to your damage roll plus an optional yellow dice minus the opponents blue roll. So if you have a yellow dice already on the target and are rolling 2d6+1d8 you can get a maximum attack roll of 8 for your red dice + 6 for the yellow dice = 14. It is possible for a busted up mech to not allocate any dice to defence (maybe they really need to move somewhere or scan something). But then that would indicate a scan attack having a range of 2 to 14... Ok I am going to assume a type on Joshuas part.

[Ramcat]

Still don't get how the range starts at "2", unless the +d8 adds the d8 to the chosen d6.

Ah, hah! The "2" starts because the spotter die minimum would be "1". That plus my attack minimum a "1" (I need a difference of at least, one, to roll any dice), makes the range start at "2".

Given that, if the defender had no defence die, my range would be 2 to 14: d6 or d8 from my attack plus d6 from the spot die - for a range of 2 to 14 in "Damage" dice.

This is where the term "hit dice" threw me. I thought "hit' = "attack" but I think Joshua mean "damage" with "hit".

[Forged]

Thanks for the clarification on red dice and weapons systems. The first post confused me since it details melee direct fire and artillery as separate systems. Of course this means I need to recalculate the possible frame combinations!

Edit: Calculations are done!

325 different system combinations!
only 5 frame combinations are NOT armed!

533 combinations if your frame can start with 4 or less systems
511 are armed 22 are not.

[Axhead]

533 combinations if your frame can start with 4 or less systems
511 are armed 22 are not.

Unless there is something new I missed frames have a max of 4 attachments. People can opt for less in a hope of getting better "points per" and starting VPs, but that is a topic for another thread.

[Forged]

533 combinations is due to split weapons systems. So instead of just 3 weapon types you have 6
Weapon system A = 2d6 direct fire
Weapon system B = 2d6 melee
Weapon system C = 2d6 artillery
Weapon system D = 1d6 melee and 1d6 direct fire
Weapon system E = 1d6 melee and 1d6 artillery
Weapon system F = 1d6 artillery and 1d6 direct fire

So a weapon can end up with 0, 1d6, 2d6,3d6, or 2d6+1d8

Then add the other systems to the mix. Many of the frame combinations are nearly identical (until they are forced to lose systems)

A frame with 2d6 melee and 2d6 direct fire could either have 1 of system A and 1 system B OR 2 system D's.
The frame with 1 of each has to sacrifice one range when it gets hit. The frame with 2 split systems stays flexible, but loses power when hit.

[Ramcat]

So if you have a split range system, do you declare the range the system will fire at? Or because it fires at both ranges, you declare the system.

The "gamble" attack declaration (armed with sword and DIRECT fire slug thrower):
I am going to HTH that frame (points to board). Player selects HTH dice and all others and rolls.
Ends up with movement dice that will not let him get into HTH.
No attack made (because frame had lowered, or slung, slug thrower, readied sword and charged, but only after he attempted to run across battle field did he realize he would not make it in time (this turn)).

For a split range slug thrower the "no attack made" does not seem to work as cleanly because the same mechanism used to attack at HTH is used to attack at DIRECT.
Same senario (armed with 1 split range slug thrower):
I am going to HTH that frame (points to board). Player selects HTH/DIRECT (1d6 in either range) dice and all others and rolls.
Ends up with movement dice that will not let him get into HTH range.
Still attacks (becuase gun works the same at either range)?????

[Forged]

You don't declare systems, when a frame is activated you roll ALL your dice, then assign where your white die is going, then act accordingly.

So for your example:
Frame with HTH sword and DF slug thrower, (the other systems went boom)
Rolls 2 white, 2 red for melee, 2 red for direct fire.

If the white dice are not enough to get into melee, then you can use the direct fire dice.
If they are, then happy melee!

The example doesn't change if the frame had two HTH/DF split slug throwers just where the dice came from does. The purpose of split systems is what happens AFTER losing a system.

New example:
If the two above frames both took 1 more hit.
The sword/gun guy would have to choose which weapon to keep, since he didn't get into melee in the above example, he is sitting with 2d6 direct fire dice.
The other frame however loses one of his split guns. He's now down to 1 melee die and 1 direct fire die. So he doesn't care how close his opponent is, but his offence is reduced.

[Ramcat]

@Forged Awesome work on the number of possible combinations. That is a lot of variability and while the 'outside' might look the same the way those 'same' frames take damage is very different.

As for declaring systems vs ranges, I'm pretty sure (not 100% 'cause the rules aren't out) that you do declare the range you choose to attack at and if you don't end up in that range you fail to get an attack. This is why my question about split range systems.

These are decisions made at design time. Once you've designed weapons with a certain spread of ranges, you can't change those ranges in play. In play, you choose which range you're attacking at, then roll the dice, then assign a defense die, then fire (or move), then move (or fire), then spot somebody. In practice, sometimes you can't do all those things, mind you; you might be stuck in a place you can't leave for tactical reasons, you might allocate your good dice to an attack, leaving yourself with no defense, you might allocate your good dice to defense, leaving no attack, you might not wind up at the range you needed, or you might be unable to spot someone.

Two key phrases, "In play, you choose which range you're attacking at," and "you might not wind up at the range you needed".

[Forged]

Thanks Ramcat, I guess we need the real rules before things like that are sorted out. I'm still really stoked. My next number crunching spree will hopefully be calculating the effects of different strength attacks vs cover/no cover, being scanned etc.... I would love to figure out things like, average number of attacks to destroy a frame, how much movement can you expect a frame to cover in x turns based on green dice.

All the things that are meaningless when actually gameplay starts and the dice gods ruin my well planned statistics....

[Ramcat]

Ah, the dice gods, yes....

But as a long time Ogre player one of the best articles I ever read was called "Playing the Odds in Ogre/G.E.V". Knowing the odds does help you in battle choose what should work the best.

Can't wait to see your calculations!