Maximum Initiative and Tracking It

[David Artman]

The maximum possible initiative would be a 7 frame company A vs. an 8 frame, fully (or nearly fully) equipped company B.

Ah, of course--can't get the +1 to Asset Value without having fewer frames. So 70 it is. Thanks!

Oh, but yeah... suppose that 7 AV company captures all the stations with no frame losses? 7 frames + 6 station is 13 * 7 is 91. OK, cool--still only two digits.

I like the ideas of plates or bricks as poker chips--cheaper than making a mini abacus for each player (probably). Or, better still, abacus-like accounting (by digits, not enumeration) but using plates or bricks. I'd need 8 in one color plus 2 in the 'team color' sitting atop a team-color double-wide (i.e., if I use 1x2s, then they sit on a 2x2; 2x2s sit on a 2x4). Yeah... that's the ticket, I think.

Thanks, all! More ideas welcome, but I can't imagine a cheaper method than using 11 small plates (i.e., less than $1 per team).

[schoon]

Well, assuming that the max Initiative over the course of a game is less than 100 (two digits), what are the ways of graphically representing it at the table?

A big d12 for the doomsday clock seems obvious - this less so.

Suggestions?

[Axhead]

... using 11 small plates (i.e., less than $1 per team).

Plates are really difficult to pry apart accurately when they are stacked, I would recommend bricks instead. Plus bricks are easier for the other players to see.

[schoon]

I found these: Number Flash Cards

Players just have the appropriate card in front of them!

[randolph]

Tablet with appropriate app <_<

Or maybe just currency of the appropriate denominations >_>

$_$

[David Artman]

Plates are really difficult to pry apart accurately when they are stacked, I would recommend bricks instead. Plus bricks are easier for the other players to see.

True, but (a) I wouldn't jam the plates down flush, but only stack them firmly enough to stay together; (b) 1x1 plates can be angled to alternate square and diagonal; (c) 1x2 can be staggered, should they be used; and finally (d) I don't want something potentially five bricks high on the table (i.e., there's "easy to see" and there's "the tallest things on the table" and I don't want the latter).

...And I just realized that it would be helpful to also have a stack for the Asset Value, just for the sake of easy reminders. That only adds three neutral plates and one 'fives' plate (all one needs for the range of values 3 - 7). Less than 40¢ more per player.
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Schoon, the numbered flash cards are nice... but I wouldn't want to have to carry 4+ decks of them around (two or more players might have the same Initiative at the same time). Although one could always use two cards and sum them, if one has the same Initiative as another player (e.g., Player A has the 23, B has the 20 and the 3).

Alternately, one could do it easily with a single deck of playing cards, assuming that you never have more than four identical digits (e.g., Player A has 23, B has 31, C has 53, and D has 33--one too many 3s). That would be even more rare than identical Initiatives, which could happen very often: every game start where everyone fully fields/fields identically.
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Any more ideas? Ya call THIS brainstorming?!

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

Tablet with appropriate app <_<

Or maybe just currency of the appropriate denominations >_>

$_$

Yeah, that was my hope for the web app: that it would also track overall scores.

[Dukayn]

I like these, but you'd need 2 sets which is $40 worth.

[David Artman]

I like these, but you'd need 2 sets which is $40 worth.

Aw, yeaaah! Big horking dice would sufficiently intimidate the opposition that one might be able to tolerate how often they get knocked into an incorrect value (happens to me too often with the doomsday die... or, at least, that's my story and I'm sticking to it).

[CrackerAxe]

"Assets x Asset Value = Initiative" I found unclear because of the repeated term "Asset" and the uncertain meaning of "Asset Value".

"Assets" are defined on the previous page. What we are talking about here are not the Assets themselves but the number of assets or the asset count. I'd simply call it Asset Count.

"Asset Value" is not a valuation of the assets. It's a calculation that derives a multiplier that is a factor in the Initiative value. I'd give it it's own unique name so it's not confused with the Assets or Asset Count - something like Combat Multiplier or Fight Factor.

I agree, I found the current terms unwieldy, I am not so concerned with "Asset Count" as a term, rather than "Assets" except that it sits beside "Asset Value".
If you change the term "Asset Value" then I would not care either way.

While I am at it, I have issues with the term "Initiative", I am so familiar with this from other games I have to unlearn what I think I know about this to "get" what it means here.
Also "Initiative" seems to alternate between "Victory Score" and "Initiative" at a later point in the rules.

I would prefer :

Asset Count X Asset Factor = Victory Score

if the repeated use of the term Assets is an issue then

( Frames + Stations ) X Asset Factor = Victory Score

[Ramcat]

I would prefer :

Asset Count X Asset Factor = Victory Score

if the repeated use of the term Assets is an issue then

( Frames + Stations ) X Asset Factor = Victory Score

Here Here. I like this wording too - he who holds the victory (most points) moves first. Easier to unlearn than initiative.
Or: (Count of ( Frames + Stations )) X Asset Factor = Victory Score

[calculus]

Hey! I like that "Victory score" or "Victory points" is a lot more intuitive than "intitative". Even a four year old knows that if you have the most points at the end of the game, you win. And it's easy to understand that the person who is winning in points gets a bonus - in this case, going first.

[CrackerAxe]

Sorry I think I have derailed this topic a bit I tried to move it to its own thread, "Terminology - "Assets x Asset Value = Initiative" "

On topic then, I really like the idea of stacking bricks to keep track of the Initiative/Victory Score, really intuitive.

I will be using this.

[CalaveraJoe]

Now, maybe this is just me here, but... since I don't /think/ it can ever top 100, why not just use a set of percentile dice per player (1 d10 and 1 dtens [as Chessex calls them])?

Heck, you could use a unique d8 for asset value (max 7) and a unique d20 for assets (max 14 [2 player game, one has all 8 frames AND controls all 6 stations on the board]). Then you just multiply the d8 by the d20 and use the d% set to show the total. This is, of course, assuming you like lots of dice (and really, with this game, you better) AND that you don't house rule it to change these maximums.

For my personal set of dice, I've got the following set aside for MF0:
All my dice are the transparent Chessex sort, which you can order direct from them.

2 x 16mm clear d6
3 x 16mm trans red d6
2 x 16mm trans green d6
2 x 16mm trans yellow d6
2 x 16mm trans blue d6
1 set 36x12mm trans yellow d6
1 set 36x12mm trans blue d6
2 x trans red d8
1 x trans green d8
1 x trans purple d12 (Doomsday)
1 x trans purple d10 (init)
1 x trans purple dtens (init)
1 x trans purple d8 (asset value)
1 x trans purple d20 (assets)

I've got a matching set of dice in opaques to share (except did not get the sets of 36 blue/yellows for spot, since the set I've got is enough for all players. ALL of those dice, was about $35 direct from Chessex. For the purples, I actually just bought the "fantasy" 7 die set, cause hey, extra dice!

I'm planning on running some demo games at my FLG once I'm all setup and the proprietor has totally agreed to make MF0 dice sets if the game gets enough interest there (basically, he'd buy large lots of dice from Chessex, then split/sort them).

[David Artman]

Now, maybe this is just me here, but... since I don't /think/ it can ever top 100, why not just use a set of percentile dice per player (1 d10 and 1 dtens [as Chessex calls them])?

They get knocked to new values. All the time.

...the proprietor has totally agreed to make MF0 dice sets if the game gets enough interest there (basically, he'd buy large lots of dice from Chessex, then split/sort them).

This is a very smart idea, I think. Work it as a bundle, maybe, with the rulebook and (say) a good set for making one company.

For that matter (OT): What about using the LDD to assemble a set of JUST "cool bits" for making frames; not even trying for an assembly: just a stack of good pieces? I'm fairly sure one can then use the LDD to place an order for that set (at premium price, butt still!) and share it so others can buy it (or buy several at once; see the bundle idea above).

Maybe a new thread/part of the "Best Sets" thread...?

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

David, hats precisely the purpose of the Mobile Frame Garage.

[CalaveraJoe]

They get knocked to new values. All the time.

Fair enough, the poly dice are less stable than d6s, and this had occurred to me. I'm actually planning on building a dice tray for storing / rolling the dice that will also house a few writing implements and the lid will me made from Ced23Ric's sweet Company Quick Ref Sheet (HERE). In the tray, I plan on having slots for the tracking dice precisely so they don't roll about. Of course, I could also just mod the quick ref sheet with a place to write the data.

This is a very smart idea, I think. Work it as a bundle, maybe, with the rulebook and (say) a good set for making one company.

Can't say I'd see him being willing to go this far. Copies of the book, potentially, but not the LEGO bits. The dice can easily be repurposed / sold for other games in the shop, and books are a minimal investment in the grand scheme of running a gaming store, but the LEGO are an odd fish that would be a specialty item JUST for MF0. It would have to take off locally in an EPIC way before he'd consider that.