Some weapons

[Ramcat]

Hopefully this is the first of many... Here are some weapons, Mantis.King, Soren, and me.

LDraw file

Here is another set of weapons, these are pure Mantis.King. He does great stuff.

LDraw file

[Wadmaasi]

Thanks for this. I've been unable to come up with anything good looking on my own and I'm wretched at reverse engineering from simple pics.

[Ramcat]

Added another four weapons, in the original post. Not done as nicely in terms of steps.

@MantisKing - I know I said your weapons were easy to follow but now I'm going to have to disagree. There are weapons on your racks I can't tell what peices they are made of. I can now see why I keep saying - plans, instructions, etc are essensial for other people to pick this game up and keep it growing.

[Ced23Ric]

... hard to tell what's in there without screenies. Care to take some?

[Mantisking]

@MantisKing - I know I said your weapons were easy to follow but now I'm going to have to disagree. There are weapons on your racks I can't tell what peices they are made of.

Which ones?

I can now see why I keep saying - plans, instructions, etc are essensial for other people to pick this game up and keep it growing.

I'm not so sure about that.

[Ramcat]

I can now see why I keep saying - plans, instructions, etc are essential for other people to pick this game up and keep it growing.

I'm not so sure about that.

From another thread:

Since this frame dosnt look very resource heavy could you possibly remove that little 2x2 plate covering his chest so I could figure out how to build one? o﹏o

Does this help?

I think that counts as "plans, instructions, etc", and all I mean by this, is, that without these online aids (and the future book) the growth of MFZ would be hampered. People want to build Soren's great models (and all the others) and without help it won't reach the "masses". By that I mean, everybody, including those who don't want to spend hours figuring out how to build a paticular model - they just want to play. And they want to play with the cool stuff they see here and on flickr.

I don't mean to argue, I just mean that growth - fast growth - comes at the same rate that its easy to make great frames to play with.

[Mantisking]

I think that counts as "plans, instructions, etc", and all I mean by this, is, that without these online aids (and the future book) the growth of MFZ would be hampered. People want to build Soren's great models (and all the others) and without help it won't reach the "masses". By that I mean, everybody, including those who don't want to spend hours figuring out how to build a paticular model - they just want to play. And they want to play with the cool stuff they see here and on flickr.

I guess I'm of two minds on the subject. I can understand the need to have people playing quickly. I'm also of the opinion that going through a learning experience while building helps you be a better builder. And in the long term, being a better builder is what I think is better for the community.

I don't mean to argue, I just mean that growth - fast growth - comes at the same rate that its easy to make great frames to play with.

As long as the growth of the community isn't too fast. Communities tend to burn out if they grow too fast.

[Mantisking]

@MantisKing - I know I said your weapons were easy to follow but now I'm going to have to disagree. There are weapons on your racks I can't tell what pieces they are made of.

Which ones?

[Ced23Ric]

Which ones?

Also, this:

... hard to tell what's in there without screenies. Care to take some?

Thanks!

[randolph]

I guess I'm of two minds on the subject. I can understand the need to have people playing quickly. I'm also of the opinion that going through a learning experience while building helps you be a better builder. And in the long term, being a better builder is what I think is better for the community.

I think you can strike a happy medium. You have the official models, with easy-to-follow instructions and convenient partslists, so there's a low barrier to entry. At the same time, you don't want to put everything else on a silver platter, so there's a learning/exploring journey/process, and hopefully with a helpful, friendly community, so there's a sense of personal accomplishment rather than instant-gratification and entitlement.

[Ramcat]

@MantisKing - I know I said your weapons were easy to follow but now I'm going to have to disagree. There are weapons on your racks I can't tell what pieces they are made of.

Which ones?

Not ignoring you (not by any means). Just really busy. Ok, let's be clear about one thing, your weapons are great, so great I want to help the comunity build them. So, if there is something I can't see, chances are somebody else might not be able to see it. I am not saying anything bad about your work. Ok? Cool.

Um, I can't figure out Weapons Array 1 top left. I think I can get the rest of Weapons Array 1 - pretty sure I could if I did them in brick first then LDraw.

Weapons Array 2 Top and bottom left and top right. TR, can't find that part in LDraw, others just have to do them in the brick first - couldn't 'look & shoot' them to LDraw.

Weapons Array 3 Second from the top right.

... hard to tell what's in there without screenies. Care to take some?

Do you mean "steps"? Steps that let you progress through the build brick by brick? Yes, they are missing, I was actually thinking of trying to duplicate what Wordman is doing - haven't figured out if I have all the tools to do that yet. Right now I intent to experiment with this file and see if I can do something more. Will let you know in the future.

I guess I'm of two minds on the subject. I can understand the need to have people playing quickly. I'm also of the opinion that going through a learning experience while building helps you be a better builder. And in the long term, being a better builder is what I think is better for the community.

I think you can strike a happy medium. You have the official models, with easy-to-follow instructions and convenient partslists, so there's a low barrier to entry. At the same time, you don't want to put everything else on a silver platter, so there's a learning/exploring journey/process, and hopefully with a helpful, friendly community, so there's a sense of personal accomplishment rather than instant-gratification and entitlement.

randolph makes some good points. I had not considered MFZ from the builder point of view. I am helping others build from the point of view of wanting to play. I have less interest in designing a new frame or weapon, I want to play the game. What attracted me to MFZ was the balancing of the victory points to the frames fielded (this is now Initiative). This is why I want to play. I like all the talk from Joshua about winning because you took a risk, and it paid off. lumpley (Vincent) has created an engaging puzzle, and I want to spent some time working it out.

I have gotten a sence of joy from the building process - for me mostly reverse engineering other peoples work. You remember my daughter chiding me for 'not making anything new, just building off the internet' and me making Grendel to satisfy her. What you say is probably true for the community as a whole, that having learned the building process, the whole community's output will be better. And 'on the gripping hand', I'll agree with randolph that some percentage of good frames has to be readily available (on a silver platter) to spark and keep interest in the game (and in building).

In writing this I just realized that I need to stop what I am doing and build ljad frames. I have been struggeling to make a third side with SU and Free Colony forces. I have been wrong. I need the ljad, It's what is missing on my game table.

[randolph]

What you say is probably true for the community as a whole, that having learned the building process, the whole community's output will be better. And 'on the gripping hand', I'll agree with randolph that some percentage of good frames has to be readily available (on a silver platter) to spark and keep interest in the game (and in building).

I had this huge wall of text typed up, but deleted it because it somehow meandered into a position I wasn't comfortable defending.

I guess I'll just say that a) we definitely want people to be able to be able to start up and play ASAP because more new blood means more fresh ideas and paradigms - a net positive to the community, and b) the community is shaped both by the kinds of players it attracts, and the kind of culture that results based on the kinds of players that stay.

Personal investment is important, and you can kind of see the cascading effects in various videogame communities: free client vs. retail box, f2p vs. subscription, reputation system/social and service repercussions vs. anonymity.

[Ced23Ric]

... hard to tell what's in there without screenies. Care to take some?

Do you mean "steps"? Steps that let you progress through the build brick by brick? Yes, they are missing, I was actually thinking of trying to duplicate what Wordman is doing - haven't figured out if I have all the tools to do that yet. Right now I intent to experiment with this file and see if I can do something more. Will let you know in the future.

Really, just screenshots of the assembled things. Basically, "here's what's in the LDR file".

[Dukayn]

I gotcha back, Jack.

[Mantisking]

Not ignoring you (not by any means). Just really busy. Ok, let's be clear about one thing, your weapons are great, so great I want to help the comunity build them. So, if there is something I can't see, chances are somebody else might not be able to see it. I am not saying anything bad about your work. Ok? Cool.

I didn't assume you were saying anything bad about my work. We're cool. I just wanted to know so I could help you figure them out.

Um, I can't figure out Weapons Array 1 top left. I think I can get the rest of Weapons Array 1 - pretty sure I could if I did them in brick first then LDraw.

Weapons Array 2 Top and bottom left and top right. TR, can't find that part in LDraw, others just have to do them in the brick first - couldn't 'look & shoot' them to LDraw.

Weapons Array 3 Second from the top right.

Okay. I'll get you a parts list as soon as I can.

[Mantisking]

Here is another set of weapons, these are pure Mantis.King. He does great stuff.

LDraw file

Are you sure that they are all mine? I did copy several weapons designed by Soren.

[Ramcat]

Ah, you are right I did forget that you had said some of those weapons were copies or inspired by others. Hmmm.... well, I'd never intend to hide credit from Soren, and you don't give a breakdown of which weapons are who's, so I'll say this: Anything could be fathered by Soren in the world of MFZ, I don't know who started all this but I think from early on Soren has been influencing this world. And in terms of the kickstarter, and people introduced via kickstarter, Soren is the father of our creative efforts when it comes to frames and such.

This is a side comment, but kuddos to lumpley and Joshua, as well, the three of them have created a much anticipated world. We're all waiting to be able to play, building, preparing, designing, sharing... all in anticipation of an actuall game of MFZ.

[Mantisking]

and you don't give a breakdown of which weapons are who's

Actually, I do. Read the descriptions under the pictures. I very clearly state when an item is a direct copy, or inspired by another persons work.

[Ramcat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3SZ6k9RoR0

Ok, ok. Wow, I seem to be having a bad run. And nice descriptions too.

To all those who inspired Mantisking, Thank you. His compilation inspired me, and I want to share your work with the MFZ world.

[Mantisking]

Parts Breakdown
Drum-Fed Submachinegun:
Main Body
Technic, Pin Long with Friction Ridges Lengthwise and Stop Bush.
Brick, Modified 1 x 1 with Studs on 2 Sides.
Brick, Modified 1 x 1 with Headlight and Slot.
Brick 1 x 1.
Grip
Brick, Modified 1 x 1 with Handle.
Magazine Assembly
Tile, Round 2 x 2.
Plate, Round 2 x 2 with Axle Hole.
Bracket 1 x 2 - 2 x 2.
Plate 1 x 2.