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Mobile Frame Hangar • View topic - Initiative Preview

Initiative Preview

Any rules question for MFZ: Rapid Attack should be asked here.
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Initiative Preview

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:56 pm

Let's say you've got 5 frames, Forged has 4, and I've got 4 too, but one of them only has three systems.

Each of us has two objectives.

Each objective or frame is an asset. Before we start to play, we assume each asset is worth 5 initiative points.

Who has the most frames? You. -1 initiative.
Who has the least? Forged and I do. +1 initiative.
Who has the most systems? You. -1 initiative.
Who has the fewest systems? Me. +1 initiative.

You get 5-1-1=3 initiative for each asset, of which you have 7. 7*3=21 initiative.
Forged gets 5+1=6 initiative for each asset, of which he has 6. 6*6=36 initiative.
I get 5+1+1=7 initiative for each asset, of which I have 6. 7*6=42 initiative.

I have the highest initiative. I can either choose a frame to move or pass the option to Forged. He can opt to pass it to you. You don't have that option; you have the lowest initiative and have to take a turn.

When a player loses a frame or an objective, their initiative goes down by the amount you get for each asset. So let's say you guys take out a frame of mine. I lose 7 points, putting me at initiative of 35. That means Forged now has the initiative. Forged now gets the option to move a frame or pass the initiative to me. I can opt to pass it to you, just like before, and like before you have to go if I have.

When a player gains an objective, their initiative goes up by the amount they get for each asset. Let's say that frame of mine was guarding some peaches and you took them. You get 3 points, bringing you to 24. I lose 7 points, bringing me down to 28. We share a Forged-shaped problem. Let's go deal with that.

Now, this is the reason they're not quite victory points: while I have to hit or steal Forged's assets to win, you have to hit or steal stuff from both of us. That means that the initiative points say who's winning in the point race, but there's a point where you'll defect from your erstwhile ally (that's me) and start shooting me in the back when you have the opportunity. The points say, "Shoot at the winner!" but the circumstances say, "Defect! You can take them both!" ... and by that time in the game, I bet both of our companies are in pretty rough shape while you, as the "losingest" player, have taken relatively few hits. This is your moment to shine. If Forged and I have been moving back and forth a bunch, using our initiative immediately, that means you have a complete lay of the land by the time your turn comes around. You know which frames are in a weak position, which ones have poor defense numbers, and, most importantly, none of them can shoot back so you don't have to use white dice to defend yourself — you can use them for spotting, moving, and attacking.

And hey, if I pass initiative to you, and you shoot me in the back? Probably the best thing for me to do is shoot Forged. Shooting you doesn't gain me initiative, even if I succeed. Not to say I'm necessarily your best target, but circumstances might (and often do) dictate that that's the case.

When the doomsday clock reaches 0, the player who has the initiative wins! But think of that as the side-effect, and initiative as being the immediate effect. Its strategic value (having won the battle) comes from its tactical value (initiative).
Last edited by Joshua A.C. Newman on Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby Mantisking » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:59 pm

Sorry, J. I had to split this off to prevent it derailing the other topic.


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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:02 pm

No sweat! I just came here to find this post and couldn't remember what the original topic was, so you were obviously right to do so.
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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby Ramcat » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:19 pm

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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby randolph » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:26 pm


Inexorable. Progress.
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Initiative Preview

Postby Forged » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:24 pm

I am honered to be an example combatant, all though you called me Framed for a bit in the middle...
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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby calculus » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:25 pm

Now if I just had function to compare the value of initiative vs company sizes I could calculate the Mixed Strategy Nash Equilibria....
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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:14 pm

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Initiative Preview

Postby Forged » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:32 am

I tend to be wary of 3 player matches because it tends to devolve into who is the more charismatic person rather than the better general.
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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby Roger » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:33 am

Is a station worth the asset points of whomever happens to be holding it? So I might lose the station and 4 points but you gain it and get 7 points?
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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby The Trilobite » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:51 am

I love systems that present asymmetries that can balance themselves in all kinds of different ways, in part through the passage of the game and in part through actions, luck, and decisions on the parts of the player. This looks like it's one of those, and will help keep games dynamic (and all parties interested) all the way through.
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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:58 am

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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby Ced23Ric » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:05 am

Image - An Ijad-controlled system, where SU and FC are still fighting.
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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:29 pm

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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby Ced23Ric » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:38 pm

Thank you for your elaborate response, Josh. Good insight right there. And I hope, in return, our question help you, too. :)
Image - An Ijad-controlled system, where SU and FC are still fighting.
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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:56 pm

They definitely do! I've actually restructured a lot of the text thanks to these questions.
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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby c0d3monk33 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:45 pm

Sorry if I missed this while scanning the text, but is initiative Team or Frame based? If I have the initiative, do all my Frames move before the next player, or just my first Frame? Joshua made a comment about the 'lay of the land' that sort of implied that Team based may be the case.

I'm hoping initiative is Frame based because I much prefer this kind of skirmish style play as it feels tactically richer for each Player (in my humble opinion).
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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby Ced23Ric » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:35 am

Nah. It's a mixture of both.

It's first-off team-based. You, as player, have your dedicated Initiative number. When it's your turn, you can do two things: Act with a 'Frame or pass. When you do the former, you pick the 'Frame that goes. Afterwards, next player goes, according to the new initiative (excluding you), then the next one goes excluding (him and you), until everyone went. Then, with the new initiatives set, the cycle starts anew.
Image - An Ijad-controlled system, where SU and FC are still fighting.
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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby Ramcat » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:12 pm

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Re: Initiative Preview

Postby MittenNinja » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:13 pm

So in a round Say I have initiative and there are two other teams after me. I go, then team A goes and drops one of my frames bringing my initiative below Team A but above Team B. Going in initiative order I would be next again? Or does the turn order remain stagnant until the round is over?

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