Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

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Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Ced23Ric » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:05 pm

Heya, gentledudes and dudettes.

Expanding on the excellent post on the Garage by MantisKing, let's talk 'Frame Builds.
For references, on what you can do on a 'Frame, for Reference the sister topic: Strategy Discussion: Company Build. Contains full summary of systems.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

To start off, this is the prodigial 'Frame, the standard layout, the non-specialist:

1. Base 'Frame

Soldier
Loadout (4 systems):
d6Rd d6Rd d6B d6Y d6G d6W d6W
Role:
The soldier configuration can do everything a bit and nothing outstandingly good. It is durable, gets places, and it can assist another 'Frame with a bit of spotting. It can move through cover, spot in cover, take a hit or two and return fire. With clever use of your white d6s, the Soldier config won't suck in any department. But it will also never excell in any. If you are not sure what to face, the Soldier config is pretty much the go-to config, although you may find it lacking once it starts to take damage. No redundancies and no specialisation mean, that this 'Frame can quickly lose it's effects and become a hulking corpse.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

NextUp, the Mechatonic configs as posted by Mantisking in his blog:

2. Vanilla Configurations

Brawler
Loadout (4 systems):
d6Rh d6Rh d8Rh d6B d6B d8G d6W d6W
Role:
Obviously, this config is meant to get to a station (thanks to the bonus d8 on movement, no problems), kill stuff around it and stay there. The drawback is, that it cannot fire on it's way to the target, and once it is there, it needs to move to actually do damage. Kinda so-and-so. But read below for a solution.

Stalker
Loadout (3 systems):
d6Ra d6Ra d8Ra d6G d6W d6W
Role:
Using the movement die and the alotment of artillery dice, this config stays far away from the battlefield and rains shells down on the enemy. Preferrably with spotting assistance from other 'Frames, so those shells actually hit home. Having no defense system, this config is somewhat fragile, but counts on being out of range and in cover to survive.

Spotter
Loadout (2 systems):
d6Y d6Y d8G d6W d6W
Role:
This is probably a very fragile and specialised config, but it uses some synergistic effects. First of all, with having two spotting systems, it can spot for lancemates on the entire map. Second, it gains one d8 on movement, because it has no (ranged) weapons at all. Thirdly, to actually use it's high spot dice reliably, the lower system count helps with being up-balanced in VP point terms for initiative. The problem is, that this 'Frame cannot shoot back. There is just no way this can actually threaten a 'Frame with good health, because the Spotter will always be outmatched. He needs to use his movement to stay away from hostiles and use cover in place of armor.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Then, some configs Mantisking brewed up as an addition:

3. Extended Configurations

Closer
Loadout (4 systems):
d6Rd d6Rd d6Rh d6Rh d8Rh d6B d6W d6W
Role:
This config uses the fact that once a 'Frame is devoid of ranged weapon systems, he gains the bonus Image. The idea is, that he walks in under cover of his own fire, only to use the Direct-Fire system until he takes damage. Then, the DF is discarded, the bonus movement die added & his initiative augmented, and the Closer sprints towards his target - be it ripping something apart or grabbing a station. Until then, he pretends to be a weirdly weaponized Soldier. Using the DF system as a willing sacrifice also allows him to soak up one more point of damage. Nifty.

Tank
Loadout (4 systems):
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
Role:
Name says it all. The Tank occupies an area and shoots at anything that moves. Friendlies passing by can use him as cover (Remember the 2 Defense rule), and he dishes out a solid stream of bullets and eats them up just the same. The tank is pretty much area denial and mobile cover. It's a solid build, that is tailored to fulfill it's role, and nothing else. If it is supported by a spotter, it can dish out a mean amount of damage.

Armored Spotter
Loadout (3 systems):
Image Image Image Image Image Image
Role:
This 'Frame uses no ranged weapons, which means we get the bonus die for movement. This 'Frame moves fast, stays out of trouble, and spots for the rest of the team. The added Defense system makes him more durable against hostile artillery shelling.
Variant:
Image Image Image are added.
Using another synergy effect (SSRs don't count for the purpose of determining the bonus movement die.), this variant now can defend itself and doesn't lose it's fast movement. Nifty².
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Now some configs we came up with here in the thread:

4. Additional Configurations:

Fire-Platform
Loadout (4 systems):
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
Role:
There is so much red on this 'Frame, his task is more than clear. Being a mobile fire platform that can surely blast targets to smithereens, this is a beast in Direct-Fire range, augmented with SSRs. Now, the best way to avoid dancing with this abomination would be staying out of DF range, for which he has 3d6 in artillery range. While the primary task is area denial, he can effortlessly rain down shells if hostile actually do stay away. With the added defense die, he also has a higher chance of surviving return fire. Put this puppy into cover close to a station and he will be just fine. Keep the white d6 up for defense and this will be one tough nut to crack. It pays off to use your spot dice for this 'Frame, because he can bring the hurtin' down.

Sniper
Loadout (4 systems):
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
Role:
By switching one Artillery system to a split-range A/D weapon system, this 'Frame can actually defend itself if something gets closer than it's preferred range. Furthermore, with the added defense system, he can also survive returnfire more likely. Movement is still crucial, if just for using cover efficiently. All things combined, this artillery 'Frame has the obvious drawback of specialisation mitigated to some extent.

Walking Turret
Loadout (4 systems):
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
Role:
The task is pretty much identical to the regular Tank, but this config eschews some DF firepower to add the precious artillery range bracket to it's repertoire. So, if your area denial works out, this config makes the tank not just a "No!", but turns it into a weapons platform that can add support fire to other 'Frames - or battles way out of it's operating range. Because it's slooooow, just like the Tank.

Area Denial
Loadout (4 systems):
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
Role:
Similar to the Tank, only with added melee punch, for those situations where something does go through and enters the Tanks yard. In case someone wants to weather the fire and then take the Tank in melee. With this loadout, he can fight back with added punch, making him better suited to protect a 8 units wide bubble around his position.

Shoot & Scoot
Loadout (4 systems):
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
Role:
Hit and run. Shoot fast, shoot hard, and run from cover to cover. Pick off hurtin' hostiles, come in, clean up, run out again. Sacrificing defense for mobility, and adding serious punch at DF range. Having all those mobility dice means, that the d6W are free for defense, so it's actually not that bad.

Swarmer *1
Loadout (4 systems):
Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
Role:
This is a more aggressive version of the Soldier. Dropping the DF weaponry augments or keeps all diceroll capabilities of the 'Frame, but especially movement and damage/damage potential go up. To make full use of the short range and the ability to spot for others, a full group of four, if not six is highly synergistic, as they can focus fire any target down within a short amount of time.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Let's hear some of your ideas!

*1 Swarmers were called Closing Spotter on the first conception here, but were then renamed swarmers, as this loadout has been used by Joshua for his Fuchikoma Swarmers to great effect. We realized this later on.

Changelog:
Edit 21/04/2012: - deleted Closer Variant, rewrote the Armored Spotter (former Missile Monkey), renamed a few loadouts, fixed missing bonus dice.
Edit 24/04/2012: - added Shoot&Scoot + Swarmer, changed 4th section to "community efforts", added footnote.
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Mantisking » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:25 pm

Ced23Ric wrote:Closer Variant
Loadout (4 systems):
d6Rd d6Rh d6Rh d6Rh d6B d6G d6W d6W
Task:
Now, this 'Frame is a bit iffy, but serves a purpose. By switching one HtH system for a movement system and splitting the DF system into H/D, this config is faster where it needs to be, but loses melee punch. This variant favors speed over punch. Personal preference, I'd say.

This might be unviable. Maybe not unviable, more like suboptimal. The whole point behind the Closer is that it will be the first to draw fire from the Defender and can use 2d6 while at range. Which is what you will be because you're just outside the Defender's perimeter. So only having 1Rd is less than optimal in that case. Also, the reason it works is because you drop the gun first so you'll never get to use the 3Rh unless the Defender makes the mistake of putting a mech right beside yours.

I'm thinking there is a variant, but it uses Spotting instead of something else since it will be the first activated mech on your team.
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Ced23Ric » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:33 pm

I was just tossing ideas around. But, good input! I see your point. The split systems falls short due to being part of the "drop me to sprint" idea behind the Closer.

Replacing the movement dice with spot, mhmm. Would it not only work it DF range, and thusly, be somewhat limited? *rubs chin*
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Mantisking » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:42 pm

Ced23Ric wrote:I was just tossing ideas around. But, good input! I see your point. The split systems falls short due to being part of the "drop me to sprint" idea behind the Closer.

Exactly.

Ced23Ric wrote:Replacing the movement dice with spot, mhmm. Would it not only work it DF range, and thusly, be somewhat limited? *rubs chin*

You're right at the tip of the spear. As most of the Defender's mechs should be fairly close to you, it doesn't have to reach the whole table.

The Artillerist
Loadout (4 systems):
d6Ra d6Ra d8Ra d6B d6B d6W d6W
Task:
This one is designed to drop fire on the rest of the table. He doesn't move fast and he doesn't have to. The only time you'll really move this archetype is at the start of the game when he hunkers down behind some cover in a nice shooting position. You'll use his White dice for Defense or Offense, maybe a little of both depending on the situation. When you get good rolls from your primary Red and Blue dice you can toss a Spot on an opponent's mech that's out in the open. You'll want a spotter for this one, to get those really high attack rolls.

The Sniper
Loadout (3 systems):
d6Ra d6Ra d6B d6G d6W d6W
Task:
Take it up on top of the nearest piece of terrain to rain shots onto the battlefield. He moves around to get the best use of cover and range. He also has an open slot to use however you see fit for the coming battle.
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby potsticker » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:48 pm

Ced23Ric wrote:Missile Monkey
Loadout (3 systems):
d8Rr d8Rr d8Rr d6B d6Y d6Y d8G d6W d6W
Task:
This 'Frame uses three synergistic effects at once (which is why I adore it). First effect: Low system count makes for higher initiative. Second: SSRs don't count for the purpose of determining the bonus movement die. Third: No (other) ranged weapons means we actually get it, too. This 'Frame moves fast, satys out of trouble, and spots for the rest of the team. The added Defense system makes him more durable against hostile artillery shelling, and with 3 SSRs, he can shoot at targets of opportunity, too! Nifty².


A variation on that:
d8Rr d8Rr d8Rr d6B d6B d6Y d6Y d8G d6W d6W

Now it doesn't have as great of an initiative, but it can now cover for other frames as well as spot for them. Though, honestly I'd probably build this without the missiles and either swap a yellow for two red hand to hand dice or the second yellow for a green-- Though that's giving it a completely different role!
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Mantisking » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:40 pm

Just as a warning, I will be posting on my blog any archetypes that are created here. With full accreditation of course.
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:03 pm

Hey, guys, I'm sorry to pee on the configurations that use it, but no one gets initiative dice any more. That system's gone. It was sloooow. Also had a weird side-effect of disorganizing your formations, which, if you're like me, you don't need help doing.
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Forged » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:13 pm

Oh good, I didn't like the idea of using less systems just to "go faster" that was what green dice are for!
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:00 am

It wasn't "faster"; it was "on time". But it didn't really do that anyway.

Faster, I'm OK with, actually. We've discussed getting a green d8 for every system your frame doesn't have. It's a big tradeoff, and one that you'd expect: you're faster, but if you don't have a system in place, you'll go down 25% faster, not to mention whatever effect on surviveability that system would have had.

The rule's not in place because we haven't had time to test it.
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Ced23Ric » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:34 am

What's the benefit of running less systems, then? Is it just having less to consider for the prupose of VP, thusly getting more points by being weaker?
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:39 am

Yes. And, keep in mind; they're only victory points at the end. They're initiative points the rest of the game. Having one fewer system than you means I have the initiative at the beginning.
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Ced23Ric » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:44 am

I am so confused right now. :D

Can't wait for the preview of how initiative is handled.
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Mantisking » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:02 am

Ced23Ric wrote:To start off, old Mechaton configs, taken from "Mechatonic":

1. Vanilla Configurations

Soldier
Loadout (4 systems):
d6Rd d6Rd d6B d6Y d6G d6W d6W
Task:
The soldier configuration can do everything a bit and nothing outstandingly good. It is durable, gets places, and it can assist another 'Frame with a bit of spotting. It can move through cover, spot in cover, take a hit or two and return fire. With clever use of your white d6s, the Soldier config won't suck in any department. But it will also never excell in any. If you are not sure what to face, the Soldier config is pretty much the go-to config, although you may find it lacking once it starts to take damage. No redundancies and no specialisation mean, that this 'Frame can quickly lose it's effects and become a hulking corpse.

Is this actually from Mechatonic? I don't see it in the Strategy Guide.

Ced23Ric wrote:Brawler
Loadout (4 systems):
d6Rh d6Rh d8Rh d6B d6B d6W d6W
Task:
Obviously, this config is meant to get to a station (thanks to the bonus d8 on movement, no problems), kill stuff around it and stay there. The drawback is, that it cannot fire on it's way to the target, and once it is there, it needs to move to actually do damage. Kinda so-and-so. But read below for a solution.

Missing the free Gd8.

Maybe we should establish some ground rules.
1.) Each loadout should have a different name. You toss the word "variant" around too much people will lose track of what is being varied.
2.) In direct contradiction to rule #1, the only thing that deserves a "variant" tag is a frame design with added missiles. So, in reality, that makes the Missile Monkey a variant design of the Armored Spotter.

Armored Spotter
Loadout (3 systems):
d6Y d6Y d6B d8G d6W d6W
Role:
Putting those big juicy yellows on the most opportune targets the opponent has. The Blue die enhances survivability. Even still, keep this guy in cover, he has no weapons.
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Ced23Ric » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:00 am

Amended the OP. :)
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Mantisking » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:54 pm

Here's a couple that have been percolating in my skull. I'm not sure how they're going to work.

Shoot & Scoot
Loadout (4 systems):
d6Rd d6Rd d8Rd d6G d6G d6W d6W
Role:
Hit and run. Shoot fast, shoot hard, and run from cover to cover.

Spotting Closer
Loadout (4 systems):
d6Rh d6Rh d8Rh d6B d6Y d8G d6W d6W d8Rr d8Rr
Role:
This is the Spotting version of the Closer. It doesn't have the gun of the regular version, using instead SSRs to cover the range differential until it gets into melee distance.
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:38 am

Your "Spotting Closer" is the configuration of my Fuchikoma/Ijad scouts. Try them in a four-pack! They're terrifying!
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Ced23Ric » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:27 am

Mantisking wrote:Shoot & Scoot

Mhmm. Being in DF range without any defenses means that this 'Frame can be targetted with two kinds of weapons in his home range. Because of his abscence of d6B, he would be a prime target for enemy snipers/arty, because he is easy to disable/destroy. Could work if there was no or only few hostile arty or your enemy forgets how fragile the 'Frame is. Then, you could skirt around the max range of DF, dip in to get off shots and scoot away again ASAP, to avoid return fire. Problem with that: You have only one move phase, either before or after you shoot. So you can only shoot & scott if your targets is in your range as your 'Frame goes ... which means, he would be in DF range, which means, he would be a good target to shoot at because he is squishy. Iffy. I dunno.

Mantisking wrote:Spotting Closer

Well, in all actuality, you lose d6Rd d6Rd and gain d6Y. The 'Frame cannot spot for himself, so you are giving him a support ability, whereas the 'Frame initially was meant as a specialised charger. Practically, you built a Soldier with HtH instead of DF, and that makes your d6G a d8G, frees up room for another d8Rh. Mhmm. Looks like a slightly faster, way more damaging albeit short-ranged Soldier that can at least shoot some missiles in DF Range to come close to it's original gameplan. Interesting. I actually like this one better than the Soldier config.
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby CPTPromotable » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:48 am

Does d8G give you the ability to move over/through cover like d6G ? I imagine moving through cover would be of Major Importance* to a brawler/closer.


*see what I did there? heh heh, puns.
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby MittenNinja » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:50 am

CPTPromotable wrote:Does d8G give you the ability to move over/through cover like d6G ? I imagine moving through cover would be of Major Importance* to a brawler/closer.


*see what I did there? heh heh, puns.


yes you can move through cover with a d8G
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Re: Strategy Discussion: 'Frame Build(s)

Postby Ced23Ric » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:04 am

CPTPromotable wrote:Does d8G give you the ability to move over/through cover like d6G ? I imagine moving through cover would be of Major Importance* to a brawler/closer.
MittenNinja wrote:
CPTPromotable wrote:Does d8G give you the ability to move over/through cover like d6G ? I imagine moving through cover would be of Major Importance* to a brawler/closer.

yes you can move through cover with a d8G

Amended the OP and the OP of the (now) referenced other topic. Good to know!
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