Rules preview: balance & victory

[Roger]

How does victory work in multiplayer? Can you have a guy who won outright, someone else who also won but not as much, someone who lost, and someone who really totally lost?



Cheers,
Roger

[lumpley]

Yes, exactly!

Although around here, we usually just say a winner, a loser, a loser, and a loser.

-Vincent

[Axhead]

I am really sorry to hear that you cant, fall back off of the table (my house rule senses are tingling). I really like the idea of pulling back wounded frames when the going gets tough, it just makes things seem so much more realistic.

Given that the VPs seem to represent both Tactical (shizzy blown up/captured) and Strategic (resources allocated vs objectives gained) considerations it seems like displacing off of the table doesn't need any rules to limit it: sure you can't kill that mech but it should now be easier to take Stations and concentrate fire on remaining hostiles. All of this seems to balance out automatically given the VP structure already.

If in an extreme example the smaller side ran entirely away and nobody lost any Mechs the Displacing side would loose 14 or 21 points (depending on game size) for loosing 2 or stations and the side which holds the field will gain 6 or 9 points respectively. This means a net 20 or 30 point advantage for the side which holds the field. That should be enough to win right? If so why apply any artificial limitations to what you can do?

Jason

[Ramcat]

Because in that example, if the smaller side just ran, and lost the 2 stations - for 14 points, the final score would be:

Small side: 35 (49 - 14)
Large side: 33 (27 + 6)

For running away the small side would win.

That would work terrible - I could win by running away. And have horrible effects on a campaign game.

[schoon]

For running away the small side would win.

That would work terrible - I could win by running away. And have horrible effects on a campaign game.

Keep in mind (from one of the update posts IIRC) that there is also a limited playing area to worry about as one trying to run away.

Thus, the guy with numerical superiority may be able to corner you and force a fight.

[Dukayn]

I think they're talking about running your frames off the game board entirely, taking them out of play. This would be hard to counter unless you managed to encircle the enemy's pieces entirely.

[Axhead]

Yes I was talking about moving mechs off table.

In Mechaton the "defender" is the one with the lowest initial victory point total, determined by relative number of mechs and attachments. So the ideal set up is to have one less attachment than your opponent. If people make a habit of mining or maxing out their force it becomes quite predictable and you counter appropriately. Something else to keep in mind is that the attacker only needs to start outside of direct fire range, which means on turn 1 you can move into direct fire range and blaze away with everything. If you take down one mech it makes them loose another 7 points which would drop the defenders to 28 and leave the attackers at 33.

If you wind up with the same number of Mechs or Attachments then the base VPs per unit becomes 4 and 6, which levels things out quite a bit more.

If it winds up being an ongoing problem it would be fair to say that off table mechs could be targeted by on table artillery fire until the dooms day clock is run down.

Failing that this is a game of giant fighting Mechs using Lego, if someone is going to be a dick about it: simply don't play with them. If you cant play this game with a beer in one hand (either metaphorically or better yet actually) and a smile on your face you have definitely missed the point.

All of this may be completely irrellevant in MF0, but it does make for fun speculation

[Yojisaka]

Instead of running a unit off the map to save VPs what about 'salvaging' your destroyed units for half their VP's?

To qualify as salvage a destroyed unit must be within 1" of one of your stations.
A unit may be dragged/carried by another unit but that unit must use it's second highest movement dice.

To claim any salvage you would have to have a station. (mobile salvage platform possibilities?)
Takes a unit out of combat to drag salvage back (unless you had a dedicated salvage recovery vehicle)

?Can you salvage your opponents units? If so I would think you would only get half of your VP/unit not the opponents (keeps the math simple).
?Salvage VPs is based on the number of attachments the unit originally had? Bigger units are worth more salvage?

I just have this mental image of a unit being dragged back to base while other units give covering fire. A desperate last stand at the final station with the attackers pushing hard to overtake it so as to deny all the VPs gathered around it in disabled frames and vehicles. As the station gets closer to being overrun the defenders begin to evacuate the wounded so as not to give the attackers the bonus VPs the salvage/wounded would give the attackers once they gain control of the station.

Oh the possibilities! The beauty of the simple yet elegant system you all have created in MFZ is very well done! It has me thinking all sorts of nuances and plans.

Yojisaka

[Axhead]

Salvage is one non-mutually exclusive option, but I just hate having an unbreakable giant wall around the table (unless of course you are fighting in a giant gladatorial arena, which would be awesome).

[CADmonkey]

unless of course you are fighting in a giant gladatorial arena, which would be awesome

Hey, it's in Armored Trooper VOTOMS: Battling! AT on AT combat in underground arenas.

[Soren]

As soon as I finish my shifts in the word mine, I'm really tempted to put together a silly little field for Mobile Frame Paintball.

[Ken]

As soon as I finish my shifts in the word mine, I'm really tempted to put together a silly little field for Mobile Frame Paintball.

That would rock! I'd love to see that.

I've been thinking about an arena for doing demos. Something on the smaller side, with two frames to a side. Just enough so people get a taste of the game and some excitement and to so of how cool the frames can be.

[CADmonkey]

I've been thinking about an arena for doing demos. Something on the smaller side, with two frames to a side. Just enough so people get a taste of the game and some excitement and to so of how cool the frames can be.

Heh, sounds like the "short game" in the back of the Mechaton book: 3 teams, 2 frames each, 1 station in the centre, doomsday clock starts at 8, whoever controls the station at doomsday wins.

Since my last post I've been thinking, an arena battle can be simulated without any changes to the rules:

Just enclose the battlefield in walls, give the different teams bright & distinctive colour schemes and build the stations to look like something appropriate to a sporting event rather than a battlfield, eg: flag stands, waypoint platforms, "capture point" boxes, etc. in team colours of course. And now instead of soldiers fighting over crashed satellites, ammo dumps or loads of fresh peaches, you have gladiators capturing flags or waypoints or what-have-you.

All of that's purely cosmetic of course. I'm sure there's all sorts of rules tweaks and extra rules folks could come up with for MFZ arena combat, but that probably doesn't belong in this thread. EDIT: So I've started a new thread.

[RabidCadaver]

okay, but wait.

3 for the bigger player, 7 for the smaller. Are those numbers always fixed like that, or were they arrived at somehow?

Also, if they weren't figured somehow, how does a 3 or 4 player game work?

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

Hey, look what I just wrote!