Rules preview: your mobile frame's turn

[timonkey]

I guess you can use lower values. Your defense example makes some sense, although I still doubt it's wisdom.

But your spot example makes no sense. If you want an enemy frame destroyed, why wouldn't you want someone else to do it for you? Then you can use your frame to shoot yet another frame.

[randolph]

But your spot example makes no sense. If you want an enemy frame destroyed, why wouldn't you want someone else to do it for you? Then you can use your frame to shoot yet another frame.

++

(1) If you destroy B's frame, you've spent a frame activation, B's frame is destroyed, B loses some initiative, and you and C are closer to winning.

(2)If C destroys B's frame, C spent a frame activation, B's frame is destroyed, B loses some initiative, and you and C are closer to winning.

(1) and (2) are identical to you, except in (2) you've got an extra activation to try to win, and C has one fewer activation to stop you.

[Xca|iber]

I was more thinking of a situation where B is sitting near a station that you want, but it looks like C might get there first if you let C destroy B's frame.

In any case, my question was more of whether you can do this in theory rather than actual, intelligent practice.

[lumpley]

We've never had to rule on this question. People wonder about it sometimes outside of play, but it's never come up in reality. It's never a good idea.

However, if you need a ruling, I'll follow the precedent of movement:

You can, if you want, set any of your numbers to lower than the die you've assigned, any time you feel like it.

So if you roll a 3 on a blue die, you don't have to ALSO have a 2 on a blue or white die in order to set your defense down to 2. You can just choose to make it a 2 if you want to. If you roll a 6 on a yellow die, you can spot somebody for any number from 0 up to 6.

No skin off my nose!

-Vincent

[Xca|iber]

Thanks! I know it doesn't come up very much, I was just curious.

[randolph]

I was more thinking of a situation where B is sitting near a station that you want, but it looks like C might get there first if you let C destroy B's frame.

In any case, my question was more of whether you can do this in theory rather than actual, intelligent practice.

Ah hm, ok.

I know you only want to know whether that option is available to you theoretically, but I want to continue this thought experiment for my own edification:

So let's say you put the 4-spot on B. For that to be not tempting enough to C vs. a 6-spot, he would have to be unable to kill it in that 2-dice delta, while you could, AND have a better use for his activation.

A 4-spot vs. a 6-spot is 2 more damage dice rolled, so an EV of 2/3 of a system, 1 if HtH. For an EV delta of 2/3-1 system, it would take an EV delta of 2 from the weapon dice in the same range (the same difference as the spot), or if you were HtH and they were not (there's a kinda messy list of thresholds for this, I'll expand on this if you really want - in brief, HtH is really scary). From this chart, EV deltas of 2+ are only possible in the same range if C is using a split system, or you're chucking at least 2 rockets.

Under the circumstances, were I C, I think I'd just go to the Station and shoot someone else.

[Ced23Ric]

I think it's pretty much like the whole "Feel free to drop your gun to get that ."-rule.

[timonkey]

If I want to shoot someone, you putting a lower-than-you-could spot isn't going to change my mind. I will probably put a spot on the frame at the end of my turn anyway, giving the most total damage.

The only exception I could see is if you are trying to get to a station, but I'm planning on doing something else. But maybe if you put a 6 spot on the frame guarding it, I'll instead walk up to it and try to take it myself. But really, I don't see how you can think that you'll be guaranteed to take it, but lowering the spot a couple means that I definitely can't take it. And either way, I can still just move and sit on the station before you can get there, so you're going to have to take out my frame anyway. You might as well have me take out our mutual enemy first so you can concentrate your firepower on me.

Maybe there's some psychology about having to attack someone with a 6 spot sitting on him, but that seems to be the only thing that could apply.

[Roger]

This sort of supersedes / makes obsolete the rule about not needing to move as far as you roll on movement, so we're pretty close to breaking even here.

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

That's a really lousy gamble. These aren't solid points of damage; they're just odds. If you put a spot of 6 on a defense of 0 and then roll an 8 attack, then roll 14 dice, you could still do no damage. That kind of thing happens all the time, actually. Last game I played, a 9-die attack resulted in no hits. Giving someone a crappier spot doesn't change their behavior, and it just makes it that much less likely that they'll do anything at all.

I mean, I can see why you want to do it; you want the two of them to fight until you get there. But I can't imagine how you'd decide how to change a spot to enhance your odds of succeeding.

So, yeah, if you want to, you don't have to use the full value of any of your dice. Knock yerself out.

[Ced23Ric]

"Oh, hey guise, I'mma reduce the spot on him from 6 to to 3. Because I like him. Harhar."- You spotted someone. He's not gonna fall for that.
And slowing your enemy down in dismantling your other enemies 'Frames is rarely a good idea. If he puts his resource into a process, might aswell help him committ, so you can backstab him later when the table is much clearer.

[dedominick]

Ced23Ric: Sure.

Let's take your example up top: "What if I declare HtH as my range and fall 1 unit short, but I do have DF systems?"

If you have direct fire weapons, why did you declare hand to hand as your range? You knew that the safe bet would be to declare direct fire as your range. You knew that if you failed to get into hand to hand range, you'd lose your attack. So: if you'd wanted to do the safe thing, you would have declared direct fire as your range in the first place.

There must be a reason you declared hand to hand instead. The best reason I can think of is that your mobile frame's weapons look something like this: , , & . Declaring direct fire would be the safe thing, but you'd get only one red die for it, instead of the two + d8 you'll get for declaring hand to hand. Plus you want the better damage potential of the hand to hand attack.

In this case, you looked at the situation, looked at your capabilities and the possible benefits, and decided to take a risk. You knew you might not make it, and you decided to go for it anyway. And indeed, when you try something you might not be able to do, sometimes you fall just short.

You're never going to find yourself in this situation unwillingly or unknowingly. When you make an uncertain range declaration, you know you're taking a risk, and you're deciding to go ahead with it anyway. If you don't like it, don't do it.

-Vincent

Also wouldn't you just add your white dice and then be in range?

[Ramcat]

Also wouldn't you just add your white dice and then be in range?

You don't 'add' your white dice. You choose between using one of your green dice or a white dice. No dice are added in the game (save adding spot dice to a single attack dice). d8 are not added to the d6(s) (I know we write 2Rd+d8, but we choose between them not add them).

[dedominick]

Also wouldn't you just add your white dice and then be in range?

You don't 'add' your white dice. You choose between using one of your green dice or a white dice. No dice are added in the game (save adding spot dice to a single attack dice). d8 are not added to the d6(s) (I know we write 2Rd+d8, but we choose between them not add them).

Roger thanks for the clarification.

I am piecing it together slowly!

[majincob]

So you can use some-one else's spot die?

just got alot stronger in multiplayer in my mind.

"Here you go, have a 6 spot on your neighbor over there...."

[Ced23Ric]

So you can use some-one else's spot die?

Yupp.

[Joshua A.C. Newman]

It's a good move, as long as your neighbor was already a desirable target!