Rules for flying units

Post and discuss your custom / house rules for the MFZ: Rapid Attack.
Forum rules
This is a game - This is fun - All of your posts should reflect this.

Rules for flying units

Postby Francisco Duarte » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:01 pm

Hi, people!

I have been building small armies of units to use in my games, given that me partners seldom have time or parts to build their own sets. Recently I have been trying to make true flying units for the game, in order to spice things up. At first I had a very simple change in mind for the build rules, but after posting my idea in the FaceBook group Mr. Joshua AC Newman himself intervened and came up with a few ideas of his own. Below I will present the current version of this attempt at make rules for flying units - which I called Aerospace units.

d6G
Aerospace models must always move during their turn.
Aerospace models have a minimal number for their movement action. If the dice assigned has a lower number than the minimal movement, use the minimal movement; if the dice has a greater number, use that number instead. Keep in mind that you can still move only 1 unit during your movement action, but you will be consistently swifter than other units.
Aerospace models without movement systems have a minimal movement of 2 units.
Aerospace models with at least a movement system have a minimal movement of 3 units.
Aerospace models cannot use cover and ignore cover for their movement.
Aerospace models have 0-4 systems in addition to the white dice. They also have a single Aerospace System (AS - provides 1d8G), which is located between the two white dice.
Aerospace models are thus built like the following: 1W+1AS+1W+Systems
When an aerospace model takes damage it will lose the systems first, then the first white die, and then the Aerospace System.
When the Aerospace System is destroyed the aerospace model will crash at the start of its next turn.
When the aerospace model crashes it will move forward at its minimal speed. Also, roll the dice it still has (either one white and one green d8, or simply one green d8) and chose the higher result. If there are any units or cover in the path of the crashing unit, the number you rolled represents hits against those models (roll them as hand-to-hand combat damage). Spend as many hits as possible against the first model (unit or cover) in the aerospace model’s path. If the model is destroyed and there are still hits left and there’s still another model in the crashing model’s path, then that second model takes the hits. Repeat the process until all hits are spent or there are no more models within range. Now the crashed aerospace model is considered destroyed.
d6G

Please let me know what you think.
Last edited by Francisco Duarte on Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Francisco Duarte
Talkative
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:47 pm

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby VitorFaria » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:28 pm

Most interesting!

Are the "hits" from crashing damage dice or direct flawless hits? If the latter it sounds a bit OP.
"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." Carl Sagan
User avatar
VitorFaria
Mod Team
 
Posts: 2671
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:21 am
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby CmdrRook » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:07 pm

There's a lot going on here, but I could see these rules working mechanically. I'm always a fan of fewer special cases to remember, but I think you've got a minimal amount to really sell the flavor of flying. I worry that docking a single white die* for a minimum movement value is not balanced against frames, which get no such benefit.

If you're interested in seeing other ideas around the same issues, I invite you to compare against my flyer rules found here: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5630

I'm eager to see how your ideas evolve through testing and development. Thanks for sharing!

*Corrected in later post.
Last edited by CmdrRook on Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
CmdrRook
Grizzled Veteran
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:15 pm
Location: Western MA, USA

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby VitorFaria » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:13 pm

In my book the minimal movement can be pretty harsh on vehicles, not necessarily an advantage, they can't hold stations and stuff, so I guess it's a fair trade off.
"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." Carl Sagan
User avatar
VitorFaria
Mod Team
 
Posts: 2671
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:21 am
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby CmdrRook » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:26 pm

That's fair, but I don't see why you couldn't simply circle around a station with your movement instead of breaking away, should you want to hold it.

Edit: I should also correct my earlier comment: it doesn't appear that you are replacing a white die with the aerospace system, simply adding it and using it as your sixth health point, instead of the last white die.
User avatar
CmdrRook
Grizzled Veteran
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:15 pm
Location: Western MA, USA

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby Mantisking » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:47 pm

Francisco Duarte wrote:Hi, people!

Hello!

Francisco Duarte wrote:Aerospace models must always move during their turn, and have a minimal movement regardless of the dice assigned that the movement action. If the dice assigned has a lower number than the minimal movement, use the minimal movement; if the dice has a greater number, use that number instead.
Aerospace models without movement systems have a minimal movement of 2 units.
Aerospace models with at least a movement system have a minimal movement of 3 units.

Maybe it should be reversed? Less minimum movement for having a Movement system because the "stall speed" is lower?

Francisco Duarte wrote:Aerospace models cannot use cover.

What about Elevated cover?

Francisco Duarte wrote:Aerospace models have 2-4 systems in addition to the white dice. They also have a single Aerospace System (AS - provides 1d8G), which is located between the white dice.
Aerospace models are thus built like the following: 1W+1AS+1W+Systems
When an aerospace model takes damage it will lose the systems first, then the first white die, and then the Aerospace System.

So an Aerospace unit can take 7 hits? Also, why does an Aerospace unit need a minimum of two Systems?

Francisco Duarte wrote:When the Aerospace System is destroyed the aerospace model will crash at the start of its next turn.
When the aerospace model crashes it will move forward at its minimal speed. Also, roll the dice it still has (either one white and one green d8, or simply one green d8) and chose the higher result. If there are any units or cover in the path of the crashing unit, the number you rolled represents hits against those models. Spend as many hits as possible against the first model in the aerospace model’s path. If the model is destroyed and there are still hits left and there’s still another model in the crashing model’s path, then that second model takes the hits. Repeat the process until all hits are spent or there are no more models within range. Now the crashed aerospace model is considered destroyed.

Maybe look at the rules for Ramming in IO and adapt them a bit for Crashing?

Francisco Duarte wrote:Please let me know what you think.

I just did!
User avatar
Mantisking
Mod Team
 
Posts: 5456
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Framingham, MA, U.S.A.

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby VitorFaria » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:01 pm

CmdrRook wrote:That's fair, but I don't see why you couldn't simply circle around a station with your movement instead of breaking away, should you want to hold it.


Around a station over a perfect deadzone with no obstacles, cover or enemy frames that would be easy, but most often this isn't the case.
"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." Carl Sagan
User avatar
VitorFaria
Mod Team
 
Posts: 2671
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:21 am
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby Francisco Duarte » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:25 am

Okay, I will try to clear some things up.

Regarding the hits against targets when you crash, those are damage rolls, and function as normal ones, it just means that you get to roll as many damage dice as the speed you roll when crashing. If you manage to not damage or destroy the first target be it a Frame or cover, then they're gone, regardless of what's behind them.

Maybe it should be reversed? Less minimum movement for having a Movement system because the "stall speed" is lower?


The way I was thinking about it is that as far as you move, you won't stall. The minimal speed is the movement you can have even if you assign a 1 to your speed. So if you minimal speed is 3 and you assign a 1, you'll get to move 3 units anyway.

So an Aerospace unit can take 7 hits? Also, why does an Aerospace unit need a minimum of two Systems?


Should have written 0-4, honestly. I'll correct that.

According to this proposal you would have a unit that can has the standard 2 white dice and up to 4 systems + 1 (the aerospace system and its 1d8G, sandwiched between the two white dice) that has a mean speed greater than other units. It can quickly take Stations, but will have a hard time maintaining them. The idea behind it not taking cover and possibility of causing damage when crashing is an attempt to balance it out, while making it feel different from normal frames. Furthermore, I really wanted to try to write these rules in as a simple of a fashion as possible.

My initial proposal was of simply hard wiring 2 movement systems to a flying unit, but to my surprise a few people, including Mr Newman himself, started to comment and add ideas which actually felt better than my initial proposal. This means that this can count as a work in process, especially in the smaller details, so I'm open to ways to tweak it and make it more enjoyable.

If you're interested in seeing other ideas around the same issues, I invite you to compare against my flyer rules found here: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5630


First, your post is awesome. Second, it does seem that we are more or less on the same page regarding flyers, the details are what differs most. If you don't mind I would like to maybe borrow a few points to mature for my own take a little more.

All in all, thank you so much for the feedback, guys. This is truly amazing.

Thank you.
Francisco Duarte
Talkative
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:47 pm

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby Mantisking » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:07 am

Francisco Duarte wrote:Okay, I will try to clear some things up.

Regarding the hits against targets when you crash, those are damage rolls, and function as normal ones, it just means that you get to roll as many damage dice as the speed you roll when crashing. If you manage to not damage or destroy the first target be it a Frame or cover, then they're gone, regardless of what's behind them.

In Intercept Orbit you roll Damage dice based on the number of Units you move. They do damage to you on a 1 or 2, no damage on a 3, and damage the opponent on a 4 to 6. Maybe flip that around for a Aerospace unit Crash?
User avatar
Mantisking
Mod Team
 
Posts: 5456
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Framingham, MA, U.S.A.

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby CmdrRook » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:18 pm

Francisco Duarte wrote:First, your post is awesome. Second, it does seem that we are more or less on the same page regarding flyers, the details are what differs most. If you don't mind I would like to maybe borrow a few points to mature for my own take a little more.

All in all, thank you so much for the feedback, guys. This is truly amazing.

Thank you.


That's what it's there for. Feel free to use what works, change or discard anything that doesn't, and if you have any questions, ask freely.
User avatar
CmdrRook
Grizzled Veteran
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:15 pm
Location: Western MA, USA

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby Francisco Duarte » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:16 pm

Made some slight updates to the flyer rules.

I'm still unsure about adding the
Every turn, a Flyer's movement path both exits and re-enters the battlefield from any edge.

from CmdrRook's own ruleset, albeit I'd assume it would make sense in context. After all, this would make the flyers feel unique and fluff-wise, planes ought to be way faster than land vehicles.
Francisco Duarte
Talkative
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:47 pm

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby CmdrRook » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:22 pm

Francisco Duarte wrote:Made some slight updates to the flyer rules.

I'm still unsure about adding the
Every turn, a Flyer's movement path both exits and re-enters the battlefield from any edge.

from CmdrRook's own ruleset, albeit I'd assume it would make sense in context. After all, this would make the flyers feel unique and fluff-wise, planes ought to be way faster than land vehicles.


By all means, if it doesn't make sense to use it, leave it behind. My thought process was because a flyer in my system moves faster than other units, it needed a rule that forced it to cede stations to opponents as a balancing mechanic.
User avatar
CmdrRook
Grizzled Veteran
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:15 pm
Location: Western MA, USA

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby Francisco Duarte » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:24 pm

I got thinking about these rules lately, and I thought they could use some trimming to simplify how they work. I came up with the text below. How do you think it compares to the version on the first post? Better? Worse?

d8Rr
Construction:
Aerospace models have 0-4 systems in addition to the white dice. They also have a single Aerospace System (AS - provides 1d8G), which is located between the two white dice.
Aerospace models are thus built like the following: 1W+1AS+1W+Systems
When an aerospace model takes damage it will lose the systems first, then the first white die, and then the Aerospace System.

Defense:
Aerospace units can only be damaged by rolls of 6 when rolling damage dice against them.

Movement:
The direction aerospace models are facing is always relevant. Aerospace models can change direction (and thus facing) only once during their turn.
Aerospace models without additional movement systems must always move two distance units in the direction they are facing at the start of their turn, and then turn if they have enough movement remaining. If they have one additional movement system they must move one distance unit before turning. If they have two movement systems they can turn immediately.
If for some reason the aerospace models cannot move during their turn, they will crash (see “Destruction” below).
Aerospace units cannot take stations.

Attack:
Aerospace units cannot perform nor be targeted by hand-to-hand attacks.

Destruction:
When the aerospace model is destroyed, it will still move at the start of its next turn. Roll the dice accordingly (or use the ones you have if you have already rolled) and assign to the movement. The aerospace model will then crash, moving in the direction it was facing the distance assigned. If there are frames or cover in the way, roll a number of damage dice equal to the movement remaining for this obstacle. The aerospace model will then continue moving, hitting any other obstacles in the way in this fashion if there is any. Resolve each obstacle separately, and always starting from the one closer to the crashing aerospace model. When the movement of the aerospace model reaches zero, then it will be considered destroyed. If for some reason you cannot roll movement for the destroyed aerospace model, then it will be considered destroyed on the spot and won’t crash.
d8Rr

Please, let me know.
Francisco Duarte
Talkative
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:47 pm

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby VitorFaria » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:18 pm

Francisco Duarte wrote:Attack:
Aerospace units cannot perform nor be targeted by hand-to-hand attacks.


Nonsense!

Image
"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love." Carl Sagan
User avatar
VitorFaria
Mod Team
 
Posts: 2671
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:21 am
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby Blorf » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:44 pm

VitorFaria wrote:Nonsense!

No point has been better made. Ha!
Now developing the Mobile Frame Zero Commander's Handbook — The official mobile/web app for rules, game aids, and tactical planning.
User avatar
Blorf
Mod Team
 
Posts: 1127
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:48 pm
Location: I stand with Twankus

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby Francisco Duarte » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:17 pm

Humm...

I wanted to keep the rules simple, so I'd say I have two options:

Remove the limitation entirely,

Aerospace models can only be targeted by hand-to-hand attacks from models with at least one green die.

Ideas?
Francisco Duarte
Talkative
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:47 pm

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby Alexial » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:29 pm

Maybe aerospace models can only be attacked hand-to-hand by other aerospace models?

Not sure about how that would balance, but lore-wise I think it makes the most sense.
Lurker.
User avatar
Alexial
Chatty
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:15 pm

Re: Rules for flying units

Postby Francisco Duarte » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:27 am

Alexial wrote:Maybe aerospace models can only be attacked hand-to-hand by other aerospace models?

Not sure about how that would balance, but lore-wise I think it makes the most sense.


It would, however, I understand that people would like to make some awesome moves using these rules. I would prefer to avoid silly situations like in one game where a tank rammed an airplane. I was kinda of sad with that because it broke the immersion. The middle-ground I see is that you need to have a green d6 or an Aerospace System to be able to hand-to-hand an aerospace unit - which obviously goes for the aerospace units themselves because of the hard-built Aerospace System. Thus, even if you gain a green d8 due to losing all ranged weapons systems you wouldn't be able to strike aerospace units - however, if you do have a mech with a green d6, you could make moves like the one Vitor posted above. I feel it to be a good middle-ground.
Francisco Duarte
Talkative
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:47 pm


Return to Fan Created Rules

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest