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Mobile Frame Hangar • View topic - 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Post and discuss your custom / house rules for the MFZ: Rapid Attack.
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2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Axhead » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:39 pm

This is really a question for one of the Mecha Honchos.

So:
Two Red Attachments gives +d8

Two Yellow Attachments lets you scan anywhere on the table, while 1 lets you Scan targets in Cover (right?)

Two Blue Attachments lets you act as cover for friendly Mechs and not take damage while doing so (I think...)

So that leaves Green Attachments. 1 lets you go through/over/under (as fluff appropriate) terrain. What (if anything) does two green attachments let you do?
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby lumpley » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:51 pm

The second movement system only gives you a second green die.

-Vincent
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Roger » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:03 pm

The frame can execute The Robot style of dancing really well.
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby lumpley » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:47 pm

My kingdom for an animated gif. Boop beep boop!

"Hey, there's no special ability for the second movement system, unlike the others" is just the tip of the asymmetry iceberg. Next, notice that there's no special ability for the first defensive system, unlike the others - the ability to pass through cover for green, the ability to spot through cover for yellow, the second die and the ability to attack at range for red. Then notice that two of them can get 8-sided dice and two can't. Then notice how they get 8-sided dice! Then notice how the benefits of stacking dice trail off again at the high end, so that having two attachments isn't twice as good as having one, and that this effect is most pronounced in weapons. And so on, down to the bottom depths of the game.

It's the asymmetries in the game that connect the strategic decisions you make when you build your company with the tactical decisions you have to make on the battlefield. Symmetry is bad game design!
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Axhead » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:08 pm

I didn't mean it as a form of critisim, just a question if there was going to be a change. Maybe something like 2 Green give a bonus green d8 kinda like the Reds.

Although I dont have an animated gif, I did just perform an interpretive dance of the emotional makeup of a dancing mech. My co-workers were very impressed.
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby lumpley » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:22 pm

Ha ha ha! Video or it didn't happen.

Boop beep boop!

-Vincent
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:08 pm

Image
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Dukayn » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:44 am

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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Axhead » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:52 am

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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Axhead » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:52 am

So I guess my next question is why not give a d8 for the second green attachment? I know from other posts that keeping move distances under control is important (maybe even critical) to game balance, but if you donts got a range weapon you a green d8 for free...
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:03 am

That's actually the issue there: the HtH green d8 is an important feature of HtH. If you move it over to an effect of green dice, it means that the bennies of r having no ranged weapons is reduced.

If I have only HtH weapons, I have to be able to catch up to hit you so you don't just keep stepping back and shooting me. The green d8 helps that.

If I'm damaged beyond repair and have to get the hell out of here before someone shoots me again, it helps

If I'm damaged, losing my gun, and have to make a desperate rush for an objective, it helps.

You see how right now it's a special effect of those circumstances? And if you reduced the distinction of those circumstances, it reduces the viability of HtH and running away? (It doesn't change the desperate rush one because the frame isn't interacting with another frame.)
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Axhead » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:14 pm

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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby lumpley » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:42 pm

A green d8 is something you earn, not something you can buy.

But instead of accepting and obeying, I'd recommend that you play the game a few times (once it, y'know, exists), and house rule it if you decide it still needs it.

-Vincent
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Axhead » Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:48 pm

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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Roger » Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:49 pm

In my naivity, I'm inclined to think that an automatic green d8 for two green systems makes that choice just way too good -- everyone's mechs would be 2G all the time.

But I'm probably wrong.
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Axhead » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:19 pm

You may already know this but a mech only ever gets the highest roll of any colour of dice, so rolling two dice doesn't move you twice as far more like 1/6 further on average. Plus an extra green 1 less of something else right?

At this point I am happy to just try the Rules As Written (RAW) and see if there is a need for change. This line of questioning is justing about killing time and talking things out. I am way more interested in Vincent and Joshuas (& all the old timers) thoughts on the design process than on seeing any actual changes go into effect.
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Galaxy613 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:55 pm

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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:31 am

I've just spent the last hour cooking up this calculation of different numbers of MFØ dice. (You'll want to click Graph and At Least at the bottom of the formula.)

The colors make it hard to read, so, Tl;dr: two dice gives you a 50% greater chance of rolling a 4+ over 1d6. That turns into 50% more hit dice, which turn into 50% more hits, which turns into a third of the dice you were going to roll but now can't.
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby potsticker » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:00 am

Thanks for that link, that will help a lot when trying to decide how to build for certain strategies.
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby RabidCadaver » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:50 pm

4d6? 4d6+d8? When would that come up?

Maybe... if you had 2 DF attachments and 2 white dice? :D
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