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Mobile Frame Hangar • View topic - 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Post and discuss your custom / house rules for the MFZ: Rapid Attack.
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Mercutio » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:19 pm

Are we overlooking the obvious? Blue doesn't have to mean armor. It could just mean agility and ability to duck out of the way. Otherwise you're overpowering the green if it can stand in for either green or blue. It literally makes d6G d6G clearly more useful than d6G d6B , and having a clearly optimal or inferior choice seems antithetical to the design process of the core system.

Just a quick thought.
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby LowestFormOfWit » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:29 pm

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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby XGundam05 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:53 pm

- "I will not die here / I still have too much to do / And too much ammo" ~ Zer0
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Foghammer » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:19 pm

I like a lot of the suggestions in this thread. I think they make good candidates for "perks."

All of my friends that I have introduced to this game have marveled at the customization of the mobile frames, until they realize that there are really only 3 kinds of weapon and three other system types. I can personally think up 24 potential combinations (barring split-range weapons and SSRs) and six of those combinations lack red dice. Given that these dice and associated actions are practically universal within the game, I thought -- and I've seen other, very similar ideas on these forums -- that it would be cool if there were synergy and options for your dice bonuses. For instance, instead of being able to act as cover, a frame with two blue dice and a green die could instead remove bricks from that cover as if the frame had hit it with a weapon... or something like that; sounds a little useless on a cursory glance, but I'm sure someone out there could find a use for it. Personally, I think the game is great as is, but I think there is easily room for a layer of complexity like this that can be seamlessly integrated or removed as desired by the group of players.

I really like LFOW's idea for using the lower of the two green die to supplement movement. Hand-to-hand frames may have a theoretical advantage in damage, but movement is still random, and that d8 doesn't grant any significant edge that allows it to be a viable strategy. HtH is a gamble; the frame has to close the gap to deliver damage, and if they never make it, then they have only served as bullet sponges to dampen action economy.

This post was much longer, but I cut out all of my whining about how my melee frames have never been fast enough to catch anything, even with the d8.
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby jugglervr » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:29 pm

I didn't want to dive into this discussion, partly because my thoughts have been echoed by a few others, but the back-and-forths make me think of the constant "why do bad cards exist in Magic" arguments.

Now, a LOT of the refutations of this are pointless in this game (being static and non-collectible), and a lot of the arguments are still valid (if all options are equal, there's no skill in army building), but one stands out loud and clear: you have to have bad cards (or bad system loadouts) that are so screamingly, obviously, bad that a total newb can glance at it and immediately say, "that's BAD!". It's like that one option "takes one for the team" so rank amateurs can immediately get some feedback on their analysis of the rules. It's a great learning moment (and example of why double dice of ANY kind don't double your roll values like non-maths might think), especially if a player does take a frame with double-greens.

I've played games where there are no blatantly obviously bad choices, and when dealing with new players, their analysis of options is kind of all over the map. There's no ability or strategy they can point to that's definitely sub-optimal, and lacking that kind of anchor point is a minor stumbling block to game adoption. In a crowded market like this one, games (especially indies) have to leverage every opportunity to ease new players in. (which is why it's unfortunate that the base rules designs include hard-to-find parts. :roll: Can't win em all.)

For an interesting perspective on bad game options, check out Mark Rosewater's podcast on bad cards (#27). He's pretty animated on the subject.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mag ... d580709168
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby XGundam05 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:36 pm

See, I dunno, I believe even the Honorable Mr. Newman has said that he'd like to get a good rule for double greens.

There's also the bit that one man's trash is another man's treasure. Sure, a load-out may seem sub-optimal, and another load-out seem super awesome and full of doom, but used correctly, those two can easily swap places.

Take this for example: d6Rd d6Rd d8Rd d6Ra d6Ra d8Ra
At first glance it might seem like a load-out of doom and badassery, but it really has few successful applications (height advantage on terrain being the only one I can think of off the top of my head). You've only got d6W d6W to distribute among defense, movement and spotting...and you've painted a great big target on that frame by giving it that load-out.

A frame with d6G d6G, although currently without explicit benefit, might even be used to greater effect than the above load-out (ensuring you can move through cover even after losing a system could come in handy depending on the board). It's not really sub-optimal, or bad. There really aren't any bad load-outs in this game if you can work it to your tactical advantage. And that's something that makes the game feel so accessible, I can build what I want, see what works with what, and just generally experiment and have a good time. Heck, I've even built a couple d6G d6G frames.
- "I will not die here / I still have too much to do / And too much ammo" ~ Zer0
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Foghammer » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:43 pm

For me it doesn't have anything to do with having "optimal" choices. I just want options. The more, the better. And this is just my opinion: Having a ridiculously bad option - an option that is so bad that only someone who has no grasp of the consequences would take it - is no better than having not having that option at all.



I don't mean any offense to anyone. Except maybe Hasbro. Obviously, I'm not their biggest fan.
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby jugglervr » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:21 am

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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Mantisking » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:46 pm

I've tossed this out there in casual conversation but have yet to test it. d6G d6G allows you to use the Ramming rules from IO.


-- A MFZ blog.
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Re: 2x Green Attachment Special Rules?

Postby Vitoria » Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:25 pm

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